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September 29, 2008

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Lisa K.

But remember...John Mccain was against torture before he was for torture, before he was against it again.

Whatever is politically expedient...

Melissa

Was he really ever for torture? I always thought that McCain, like a lot of journalists and people of conscience were badgered into submission by the WH. I'm not saying that makes it any more acceptable, but on this one, I'm inclined to give J-Mac the benefit of the doubt.

Lisa K.

3/9/08:

"On Saturday, however, McCain backed Bush's veto of a bill that would have barred the CIA from employing those same techniques - or any others not authorized by the Army Field Manual - when questioning prisoners.

Campaign aides said Saturday that McCain believes waterboarding violates both U.S. and international law and is forbidden to all federal agencies. Randy Scheunemann, foreign policy director for McCain's campaign, denied any inconsistency between the senator's record and his position on the bill.

"It's not about waterboarding and it's not about torture," Scheunemann said.

He said McCain opposed the bill for the same reason he exempted the CIA from his 2005 legislation: his belief that the agency should not be limited to methods spelled out in a public Army manual.

McCain feels "it's a good thing that (the CIA can use) enhanced interrogation techniques that are not revealed in your newspaper," Scheunemann said. He declined to identify methods that McCain believes should remain available to the CIA while being off-limits to military interrogators.

The Army Field Manual prohibits the use of force during interrogation. Among the techniques it forbids, in addition to waterboarding, are beatings, burns and electric shock; use of extreme heat; use of dogs; mock executions; forced nudity or sexual acts; hooding or taping a prisoner's eyes; prolonged sleep deprivation; and denial of needed food, water or medical care."

If it's good enough for George Bush, it's good enough for John McCain, apparently.

Melissa

Ok (and I realize that I'm now practicing situational ethics), but this is legislation relating to the CIA.

I don't want to know what they do, and in many respects I don't care. They are a spy agency. I draw a hard line between the Army and the CIA.

I believe we've crossed a very large, clearly marked line is by our willful violation of the Geneva convention and the military requiring their interrogators-many of whom are inadequately trained-to participate in torture. The tacit approval of torture by the military started in the Oval Office, it was escalated by Rumsfeld and it flowed straight down from there. I believe that Bush and Rumsfeld should be prosecuted for war crimes--and I think I hold J-Mac apart from that.

All that said, I still cannot stand this recent incantation of John McCain and I will be jubilant when he goes right down in smoke on November 4th.

Melissa

"the tacit approval...." I should clarify that I believe this statement to be true. I don't know that for sure. It's my opinion of what I believe happened (don't want Cheney to throw me in jail or anything).

Lisa K.

"I draw a hard line between the Army and the CIA."

I understand the distinction, but torture is torture, and it's hair splitting to say otherwise IMO. I do not accept it as practiced in my name no matter *who* is responsible.

The bottom line is that John McCain has been trying to have his cake and eat it too on this issue, as this cynical vote illustrates. I believe he is against torture and in his administration it would not be employed by any agency, but he's got a base to play to.

I do agree, though, that John McCain cannot be held to the same standards of criminality on the issue as guys like Cheney and Rumsfeld. He wasn't an instigator or crafter of policy-just pathetically wishy-washy on the issue.

And I *dare* Dick Cheney to try and come throw me in jail. He's got no power left. He couldn't even get a few Republicans to change their votes so the president could pass a bill he wanted desperately.

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